shaman's life. It's a hard job, and it needs support.
Shinju -Good to see an open changeable mind. Presumably an asset for
a Shaman
Osric - I've got a very open mind :-)
Shinju -So I'll ask the question again, where do other people fit into the life of a shaman?
Osric - I don't know. There must be some kind of two-way trade - information for support, or something like that. I guess the relationship hasn't changed much since primitive times.
Shinju -How do you see the difference between the two type of people shamen and non-shamen, it there a continuum between them with people at all stages, or I it a case of a binary mode as some others have suggested, with intent being a key factor?
Osric - I see it (as most of life) as a continuum. (Almost) everyone does some exploring, (almost) no one exclusively explores. I'm not sure that intent has anything to do with it - I tend to look for results, or patterns in the physical world rather than the patterns inside peoples heads.
Shinju -Intent was suggested as a key factor since some people were actively exploring and reporting back whereas some people accidentally ended up in unusual spaces and just happened to mention it.
Osric - I'd be more interested in the quality of the reports than the reasons people got lost - like I said earlier, I know a few people who seem to go exploring for the fun of exploring, without reporting back. So I guess I see the reports as the most defining factor, not the intent.
Shinju - OK. Well moving on to a more general discussion of shamanism, could you tell me about the tools a shaman might use?
Osric - Depends on the shaman, obviously, but the traditional ones are drugs and self discipline (trances, fasting, dancing etc).
Shinju -Why do you think that the subject of drug is so linked with shamanism?
Osric - Drugs are a very quick shortcut to altered states.
Shinju -(This is the first mention of self discipline.)
Osric - I don't think they are a lot of use without self-discipline.
Shinju -I see that, but there are many forms of the unknown, which have nothing to do with state of being.
Shinju -Is state of being important to shamanism?
Osric - Yup. There's not a lot of physical unknown left - except maybe

the deep sea and the deep forests, so most of the unknown is in concept space.
Shinju -That's fairly logical.
Osric - Again, it depends on the shaman. Some explore states of being;others explore other things (like the Internet). For my self, my state of being is more or less background - its something I have to deal with, but I don't want to explore at the moment. I know how my state of being affects my reality, to a certain extent, but I don't go much further than that.
Shinju -how does your state of being affect your reality?
Osric - That's a simple question with a complex answer. (Laughs)
Osric - On a basic level, if I'm depressed, I see problems, when I'm happy I see solutions. lot of reality is perception, and so my state of being will effect those perceptions - and so reality.
Shinju -Does it actually affect reality? (What do you define as reality?)
Osric - I see several realities - mine, yours and, for lack of a better
term, true or physical reality. State alters the way I deal with the world, so it effects my reality, and when I interact with you, it alters yours. It's hard to know what's 'really' going on in the true reality.
Shinju -Is there a true reality?
Osric - Don't know. I tend to act as if there is, so for me there is...I think there is a physical world separate to perception. But no one persons reality is any more real than anyone else's.
Shinju -That's fine, I understand there are different views on this and that there's no way of differentiating which is actually true, its just a matter of belief. It's just important to know which it is that the person one is talking to holds.
Osric - Yup. I'm a fairly firm believer in the objective reality - else what is it that we are all perceiving?
Shinju -Ok, I'll move on to the next question of you don't mind then.
Osric - No problem.
Shinju -Could you tell me what you feel about modern shamanism in comparison to ancient shamanism?
Shinju -Are they very different.
Osric - It's a lot looser, and not nearly so respected. The tribal system that supported it is more or less gone, and so it's harder to get the support network needed.
Shinju -Has anything of the original survived then?